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Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

Last post 05-04-2008, 11:27 AM by KaryKary. 12 replies.
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  •  05-24-2007, 12:13 AM 1658143

    Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    In response to the movie Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre I am disgusted.  That movie has nothing historical about it and is all Hollywoods version of the story.  This movie is clearly an attack on the Mormons and I find it unnecessary.  Why do people feel it is right to make movies and books that make other peoples religions look bad.  Just because we belong to different religions and have different views doesn't mean we have to persecute those that are different.  Back then Brigham Young never ordered the masacre of those people and the movie protrays this very wrong.  The mormons had trekked accross the plains to get away from mobs and persecution not to come here and persecute others.  This just comes to show how Hollywood portrays things in the world today.  I mean just look at what they are allowing into their movies.  Now a days it is common to see smoking, drugs, nudity, and sexual things and it is all being portrayed in such a way that makes it seem it is the only real way to live.  Hollywood is just obviously running out of ideas it must seem because they have to resort to comming in finding a story and then making their version of it.  I mean what happend to families and good values oh I forgot Hollywood got rid of that too.  It is common for Hollywood to portray marriage as just a short term commitment just a fun legal way to get your own personal pleasures.  Well all I have to say is way to go Hollywood I find you personally responsible for promoting the degrading and immoral things going on in the world today.  So as for the movie It is a totally fiction with nothing to do with the Mormons and what really happened.  Hollywood just has nothing better to do with their time then to help degrade, put down and demoralize others so that they can feel just a little bit better about their pathetic lives.

  •  05-24-2007, 1:40 AM 1658201 in reply to 1658143

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    Have you seen the movie? It was my understanding it wouldn't be in theaters until June 22nd...
  •  05-24-2007, 10:02 AM 1658876 in reply to 1658143

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    In reading your post, it is obvious that you are a typical Mormon.  The percentage of Mormons who have educated themselves about their religion is very small.  You say that this movie has nothing historical about it.  It is fiction to quote you.  I would like to ask you how much church history you have read.  I don't mean church-headquarter authorized church history, I mean just plain un-whitewashed church history!  It is amazing to me that people follow so easily without using the brain that we were born with.  Instead just taking for granted what "our spiritual leaders" tell us.  I am an X-Mormon and the reason I am is because I decided to research and discover my then religion on my own.
  •  05-24-2007, 2:43 PM 1660559 in reply to 1658876

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    Maybe you need to do your homework on this.  It is not fiction, it really happened, it's in my family history, I have writings from the man himself.  Have you ever read his account on the whole thing, I bet not. http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/lee_mm.htm  People need to be more carefull about what they say, this is my family history, good or bad, it is.  I think the whole movie thing is wrong.  No one knows the truth about all accounts of what happened.  John Lee does admit to what he did, it was wrong, but it doesn't have anything to do with the church now.  They practiced Polygomy back then, we don't anymore.  There were reason as to why we practiced Polygomy back then and why we don't now.
  •  05-24-2007, 9:48 PM 1661943 in reply to 1660559

    Re: September Dawn Mountain Meadow Massacre

    First, I would like to say that this so-called "news-story" is so biased, it is not even funny. I have researched the film online and actually find alot of good reviews. I especially love how everyone acts like Brigham Young was not a tyrant...has anyone read the Journal Of Discourses? I would say he sounded a bit egocentric to say the least. How come all of the counter claims on Mountain Meadows Massacre history are always by a member of the LDS Church or a BYU Expert? And why are only the experts that are members of the Church the only ones allowed unrestricted access to the original documents? How come this church has the best historical records of any other faith, but CAN NOT produce a copy of this letter that Brigham Young dispatched to attempt to save these people? Come on folks, use your heads. Let's get this event cleared up once and for all. Bring in an unbiased party who does not have a book to sell or a documentary to be sold and open the records once and for all for examination. Let's do some DNA and forensic evidence on the victim's bodies and piece this crime together by a top notch CSI team. I will bet you this could be cleared up in a short amount of time, but the Church has a definite need to control all of the documents, all of the press, and create their own history. Stop contributing to the cover-up, admit it happened...acknowledge the mistakes of the past to avoid teaching this same behavior to the children of the future.
  •  05-25-2007, 11:07 AM 1663367 in reply to 1661943

    Re: September Dawn Mountain Meadow Massacre

    I have read John Dee Lee's account of this event along with any other account I could get my hands on.   I have also studied some of the Journal of Discourses.  The churches own treasured writings, i.e. Journal of Discourses and others,  really tell the whole story.  That is if you can get your hands on copies before the church decided to clean up much of it's history.  As far as the polygomy issue, it is soooo ridiculous that I don't know how a person can look the other way.  How many Mormons know that according to their church teachings they have to be polygomists to achieve their Celestrial kingdom, if not on earth then in the after life.   I don't care how they try to cover it up it was nothing more than Joseph Smith's justification for extra martial lusty affairs.  And the reason why it is not praticed today is because it is illegal. 

    From every account of non-authorized history that I have read about Brigham Young, his was a blood thirsty tyrant. 

  •  05-25-2007, 12:35 PM 1663731 in reply to 1663367

    Re: September Dawn Mountain Meadow Massacre

    I don't dout that Brigham Young was involved.  I asked my mother about it and she said he was involved, that's what she has read in our family history accounts.  I just wish people would say things based on facts not their opinion.  I have just begun to read all I can about it.  I found about this many years ago from my mother and never new it was such a big topic. 
  •  05-25-2007, 5:12 PM 1664647 in reply to 1658876

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    I agree with you whole heartedly! I have been a member for over 40 years and finally used my God given brains to make my own decisiouns. I have done MUCH research about "the church" and KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that it is based on lies and untruths. It is about time a truthful and correct depiction about what really happened in the Mountain Meadows Massacre came out. I am so proud of the people involved in this undertaking to come out with the truth and let the world know how misguided the founding leaders of "the church" really were.
  •  05-25-2007, 7:18 PM 1664802 in reply to 1664647

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    I have seen the movie.  "September Dawn" is a fictionalized account of the Mountain Meadows Massacre with a love story that takes place between one of the perpetrators and one of the victims.  Part of the storyline revolves around polygamy, as well as christianity vs. mormonism.  Much of "September Dawn" is fictionalized and dramatized, although it is centered around a historical event.  As for the Mitt Romney debate, it is only a lucky coincidence for the producers of "September Dawn" that he happens to be running when their movie is coming out because it will draw more attention to their film and create publicity for them.  Dean Cain, Christopher Cains' son (director/writer of the film) saw Brian Patrick's documentary on Mountain Meadows "Burying The Past" years ago when it played in Hollywood and ordered a copy, and that is most likely where they came up with the idea, although Patrick wasn't included in the making of it, and chose not to be associated with it because it was fictionalized in places from what he said in his interview.  Dean Cain plays Joseph Smith in "September Dawn." You are right that no one interviewed had seen "September Dawn" EXCEPT Brian Patrick, whose documentary footage was also shown on the broadcast with his interview, and who has seen "September Dawn" more than once.  Patrick's documentary contains a forensic investigation of the evidence unearthed at Mountain Meadows and you can't get much more scientific and accurate than that--he has the only footage that exists of the evidence.  If you want to see "Burying The Past" go to www.buryingthepast.com   
  •  05-25-2007, 10:20 PM 1665143 in reply to 1664802

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    Oh, look! Another shameless plug by the "so called expert" Brian Patrick to sell more of his documentary...lol...I would call this pathetic, to say the least. I really doubt he has seen the movie and I doubt even more that anyone required his endorsement...lol.

    How come everyone opposing this movie has either a book or documentary to sell. If I was going to believe anyone... I would believe Helen Whitney who made the PBS documentary on the Mormons. At least she isn't trying to make a buck.
  •  08-07-2007, 6:25 PM 1869111 in reply to 1665143

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    I am NOT Brian Patrick.  That's like saying you're Helen Whitney because you defended her. (She is well-paid, by the way, and makes more "bucks" than most people)  Brian Patrick's documentary inspired September Dawn -- that's why they asked to interview him for the piece, and yes, he has seen "September Dawn" as they flew him out to Hollywood and wanted to buy his footage and get his opinion on their film (which you would know had you actually listened to the interview).  The History Channel, independent producers, "September Dawn," PBS, as well as Helen Whitney have tried over and over to purchase his footage for their own use and he has never sold.  For someone who you claim is trying so hard to "make a buck" you'd think he would have sold out to all those people for thousands of dollars.  It must take a lot of integrity not to sell out.  Not only has his documentary won 11 awards and played around the country, he has been invited to show his film to descendants of the victims, as well as descendants of the perpetrators.  I think the fact that both groups have extended invitations to him says all there is to be said, and is achieving in some ways the impossible, and bringing people together.  He is a good man who made the film in an attempt to bring people together and heal these old wounds.  There are many people like me out there who have been moved by Mr. Patrick's film -- perhaps if you had the courage to see it, you might be as well.   
  •  08-24-2007, 12:44 PM 1916357 in reply to 1658876

    Re: Semptember Dawn Mountain Meadow Masacre

    If Mormonism is not only true, but the one true church, with every non-Mormon destined to miss out on Heaven (or at the very least we'll end up in a 'lower level' of heaven)....then why do Mormons find it necessary to be so defensive and secretive about the history of their church?  I mean, every religion has their "dark spots"....some of those religions spend millions of dollars and years repaying and rectifying their past wrongs.  But with Mormons, they become so defensive.  Church officials and Mormon politicians scattle around at the slightest wiff of controversy to suppress evidence, make excuses and create alibis. 

    My advice to Mormons:  If you believe in the doctrine of your Church and you believe that Mormonism is the true religion, then good for you.  Many people go their whole life without knowing what they truly believe.  BUT just because you are in the Church, and believe in it, doesn't mean you can't question the TRUE history of your church.  It doesn't mean you have to generally dismiss everything that comes down the pipe without questioning it. 

  •  05-04-2008, 11:27 AM 2971336 in reply to 1661943

    Re: September Dawn Mountain Meadow Massacre

    TERRITORY OF UTAH,

    ss.

    Beaver County,

    In the Second Judicial Court of the Territory of Utah. The People, Etc.,

    vs. John D. Lee, William H. Dame, Isaac C. Haight, et. al. Indictment

    for Murder Committed September 16th, 1857.

     

    This letter, which was subsequently found, was dated at the "President’s Office, Great Salt Lake City, September 10, 1857," and read as follows:

    "Elder Isaac C. Haight. Dear Brother:—Your note of the 7th inst. is to hand. Capt. Van Vliet, Acting Commissary, is here, having come in advance of the army to procure necessaries for them. We do not expect that any part of the army will be able to reach here this fall. There is only about 850 men coming. They are now at or near Laramie. A few of their freight trains are this side of that place, the advance of which are now on Green River. They will not be able to come much, if any, further on account of their poor stock. They cannot get here this season without we help them. So you see that the Lord has answered our prayers, and again averted the blow designed for our heads. In regard to the emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them until they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please, but you should try to preserve good feelings with them. There are no other trains going south that I know of. If those who are there will leave, let them go in peace. While we should be on the alert, on hand, and always ready, we should also possess ourselves in patience, preserving our- selves and property, ever remembering that God rules. He has overruled for our deliverance thus once again, and He will always do so if we live our religion and be united in our faith and good works. All is well with us. May the Lord bless you and all the Saints forever. Your brother in the gospel of Christ.

    "Brigham Young"

     

    This was taken from the court records of the second trial of John Doyle Lee, who was convicted as the sole person found guilty of this massacre.  Have you read anything about the Hauns Mill Massacre in Missouri, wherein nobody was ever held responsible for the murder of men, women and children and the governor's order of Extermination of all Mormon citizens.  Also, Isaac Haight was a Colonel in the Utah Militia, not a Bishop, and the Pauite were not cohorst by the Mormons to massacre the emigrants.

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